An Education With Dyllón Burnside
This summer, one of the Television’s most important works of art came to a close—FX’s Pose.
Words by Dio Anthony
A coming of age story like no other, set in the early days of New York City’s ballroom scene. What felt like the pinnacle of representation also served as an education to the masses, on the nuances and lifestyles of people of color in the LGBT community. 32-year-old Dyllón Burnside is one of the players of this instant-classic, having played ‘Ricky' a dynamic dancer and member of the House of Evangelista. Today—post series he continues his journey to enlightenment, expanding what it means to be a black man in the entertainment industry and following his own rules while doing so. I sat down for a cross-country chat with the young actor for a conversation on education, real life horror and the importance of healing personal trauma––while still coming out on top.
DIO ANTHONY: I'm excited to be talking to you today.
DYLLON BURNSIDE: I’m excited to be talking to you, Dio.
ANTHONY: We should just jump into it, right?
BURNSIDE: Yeah, let's do it.
ANTHONY: I'm a huge fan of pose and your work. Honestly, in watching, I felt like it was an education for me. So, I wanted to theme the interview around the education one receives outside of school. I’d love to take it back a little to your upbringing in Pensacola, Florida. Can you paint the picture for me? I read that you grew up in a farm surrounded by animals. I instantly wondered if growing up this way altered the way you lived your your life?
BURNSIDE: Yeah, I think my outlook on the world and on life is absolutely shaped by the way I grew up. Being raised on a ranch in Northwest Florida surrounded by land and animals and wildlife at all times. And you know, not a whole lot of people. I didn't grow up in a highly populated area. I had to get in a car and travel to see people outside of my family. It definitely shaped the way I view the world. I think it especially shaped my creativity and my relationship to myself and this idea of creation. Seeing design and purpose and function in nature. Being inspired by nature and the natural world to create more, being able to actually hear myself think and actually hear my impulses in a way, because I'm not clouded and distracted by lots of people and other outside voices. That was very helpful. I think I also just value the quality of life and relationships in a different way because of my upbringing.
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ANTHONY: I imagine you have to, by default be a bit more grounded as a person..
BURNSIDE: I think so. I definitely find my grounding out in the natural world. When I need to feel grounded, I automatically think I need to go outside. I need to put my feet in the earth. I need to get in the water. I need to play in the dirt. I need to climb a tree. Those kinds of things. I think in terms of Hollywood and this business that I work in, it can sometimes be really hard to sort of be clear about who you are and be clear about why you do what you do, and what you want. I think if you don't come into this business, having a really clear understanding of those things, you can easily get lost. I feel like I'm a pretty grounded person. And I owe a lot of that to my family and my upbringing. I value a really simplistic sort of lifestyle. That is encompassed in country life, rural life, where it's you waking up and being a part of the routine of feeding the animals.I love taking care of the land. Understanding the nature of my relationship to the ecosystem at large really puts things in perspective and I think contributes to that sense of grounding.
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ANTHONY: Totally the answer I was looking for it. I love that. To divert a little—I was having this conversation recently with a reporter from USA today, who was working on a story about the lack of sex education in high schools, specifically LGBTQ sexual education, and the longterm effects of that on young people. In my high school, we really didn't have a place for this. At most, we took one week from health class to focus on sex education, and my one take away was learning about HPV. I learned nothing that really suited my own lifestyle and the life that I’d go on to live as a queer-identifying man. Pose, as I mentioned earlier taught me more than anything I learned in high school or in places of higher education. What was your own education like on these things? Was it something you learned in school? Did you learn the hard way—on your own?
BURNSIDE: I didn't either! I went to a private Christian high school. I ultimately graduated from a homeschool program, a distant learning program through a school called Laurel Springs School. But that was my last year of high school, because I went on tour with my group at the time. But for the bulk of my high school years, I went to a private Christian school and there was absolutely no sex education, no talk about sexually transmitted diseases and infections outside of the conversation around abstinence.
ANTHONY: Interesting..
BURNSIDE: It was against school policy for students to have sex. As students we signed this document where we agreed to certain things, and one of those things was abstinence.
ANTHONY: Wow!
BURNSIDE: So, my education around sex and sexual health came from influences like cousins, movies and TV, and porn. I really feel like I started to have an education around sex in my mid twenties once I moved to New York. I didn't really have much of a sex life until my mid twenties. And I didn't have a real understanding of a lot of things surrounding sex, sexual identity and sexually transmitted diseases and infections until moving to New York and meeting people and having conversations and experiences. Frankly having to go through traumatic experiences to actually learn about life and those things. Or to see my friends go through traumatic experiences to learn from them— which is really unfortunate. I do think that there are some things that are best learned through experience. However, I think when it comes to things like that, we shouldn't have to learn them through experience. There’s lots of information out there in the world that can be really helpful for teenagers to have in order to make the best decisions for their life. If only we actually sat down and talked to them about it all.
ANTHONY: I agree. Do you remember the first time you learned of the term HIV or AIDS?
BURNSIDE: I remember encountering it. I was watching Philadelphia when I was a kid. I wasn't actually watching Philadelphia, but I think one of the adults in my family was watching Philadelphia and I remember sitting on the bed and it being on and just sort of being terrified by it. Seeing Tom Hanks’ character go through the physical changes and the Kaposi Sarcoma that results in lesions and all of that stuff. That was the first time that I can recall ever having some kind of awareness of what HIV or aids was.
ANTHONY: That's crazy. Same for me— also with movies and television. Which again, it's so unfortunate because it shouldn't be something that you come across by chance. Which is literally what happened in both of our lives.
BURNSIDE: I think that's why movies and TV and representation in movies and TV is so important, right? That's why it's so important that we get it right. That's why it's so important that we make and tell stories that are honest that we tell stories that represent a wide range of lived experiences. That we tell stories that are nuanced and that give people the facts, but also give people hope because for so many of us, what we see on screen becomes our education, right?
ANTHONY: Absolutely. I mean, that's literally what happened to me. I happened to be watching a special on MTV about a Real World contestant, named Pedro who had passed from AIDS. I remember thinking..oh, what? It was the first time I had heard of it, and it was in relation to death. It was messy and it was scary and it wasn’t something I could ask follow-up questions on. I also would like to pick your brain a little bit on the topic of religion if that's okay?
BURNSIDE: Of course.
ANTHONY: You grew up in the church and have mentioned that religion has hurt you in the past. Looking back—what was the shift for you? When were you able to walk side by side with your religious beliefs, but also identifying as a queer person? You know what I mean? When did it settle?
BURNSIDE: I think it's still settling. I'm not a particularly religious person now. I grew up very religious and in some ways took on the religion of my family and, then went even farther than that of my family in terms of my own religious practices. I think that was partially because I attended a Christian school. It was a part of every moment of my life, not just at home, but it was also a part of my schooling, being indoctrinated in that way. Me being the type of person that I am, wanting to engage fully in everything that I do. It was important for me to sort of embody all of my religious beliefs in every action and everything that I did. But I also think that a part of what was rooted in this feeling of unworthiness, this feeling of sinfulness because of my own feelings; my own sexual attraction towards men that I wasn't talking about to anyone— knowing for basically all of my life that there was something about me. I think part of the way that I dealt with that was by becoming super religious and getting involved with church in a way that was all encompassing.
ANTHONY: Was it to cover it up or as a way to not have to think about it?
BURNSIDE: I think it was to help me, there's this belief that if we get closer to God, then sin has to fall away. The belief is that we cannot sin where God lives. I was equating being a part of the church community and doing all of these activities, like youth choir, youth group, and prayer meetings and Sunday service, and then Sunday school before that. I viewed all of these things as being closer to God and being in relation to God. I thought that would make the queerness in me right, and that just wasn’t the case. It sort of became this thing where the feelings that I had, reinforced my need for God or the church, and then going to church also reinforced my need to keep coming back to church because being told that you're sinful and that you need God, you need to be plugged in—you need to do these things. It was a cycle that kept being reinforced. But I say all of that to say, once I was fired from my role in the church for telling my pastor that I was attracted to men, I lost a lot of the things that I was holding onto that were really important to my means of survival. I was forced to start all over. That was really hard. It has been really difficult because I do believe in a higher power. I do believe in source. I do believe in creation. As someone who is a creator, I believe in the magnificence of everything that I see as a manifestation of the creative power of the universe. People can call it whatever they want to call it. Some people call it God. And it's taken me a long time to really get clear about how I can engage with that, how I can engage with those beliefs, how I can engage with some of the things I was taught as a young boy in Christian school, or a young boy going to church with my grandfather on Sunday mornings—carrying my little Bible. Reconciling all of that has been very difficult. And so I still am working through that. I worked through that in my music. I worked through that in the projects that I take on, but specifically in my music. I'm working through that a lot in my music right now, because the music has been a large part of my relationship to church and to Christianity and to faith. Music is definitely a large part of my spiritual practice. It's a daily thing. It's something that I am figuring out every day that I'm still sort of coming to grips with. It should be a daily thing. I think our spiritual journeys and our spiritual walks, they’re a lifelong journey. We don't just attain enlightenment at some point in our life and then live forever enlightened. That’s not how it works. Life is a lifelong journey and I set out on this journey to be my own sort of Jesus Christ or Buddha or Muhammad..
ANTHONY: I agree. I’m a believer in that once you are enlightened, part of your journey is to enlighten others. You learn as you teach. Can I ask you about the encounter with your pastor?
BURNSIDE: Yes, of course.
ANTHONY: When you told your pastor this thing about you, that you were attracted to men. Was it because you were essentially seeking refuge and hoping they, I don't know, would react differently? What was your goal in telling him? I can’t imagine the road to that statement being an easy one.
BURNSIDE: It wasn't an easy choice and It was something that I wrestled with for a while. I wanted to tell him to sort of have that additional support and counsel. The prayer and the support that I felt like I needed to get past it, if you will. Publicly our church took the stance that they wouldn't come out against same sex relationships. I think that’s a larger political statement, that for a mega church is really hard to make because it is a business after all. You want to have parishioners coming who are gonna keep the lights on. But at the same time, this was at a time before marriage equality. The stance that the church took was that—marriage is between man and woman, as we know it. That the laws of our land do not allow for marriage between same-sex couples. If you are in a relationship with someone of the same sex and engaging in sexual acts, that's adultery because you're not married. And therefore it's a sin. That was the stance that they took publicly, but would not denounce the attraction. Or people for having an attraction to the same sex. The belief was that if you do have those attractions, then you should practice abstinence. Which was the way that I lived my life at the time. Back to the encounter, it was something that I wanted to talk about, but I hadn't found the right opportunity to share with him. I had a friend who was an actor, a great actor in Florida where I'm from. I had been trying to get more involved with the theater and unbeknownst to me, he identified as gay at the time. He had been in relationships with men, and I didn't know that. Someone saw us out together at karaoke one day and assumed that we were actually out together on a date or something, I don't know. And so the pastor told me, you know, someone saw you out and they say, you're gay. Is this true? I said, that's my friend. We were out at karaoke, whatever. But yes, I am attracted to men and this is something that I've been wanting to share. And he fired me. He says, I'm going to let you off the hook. Don't come back to church tomorrow, because that was on a Saturday. Yes, I was expecting a certain level of counsel and support, mentorship, prayer and guidance, and was sort of blindsided by his response.
ANTHONY: Besides Philadelphia, was there a show or a film that helped you see your life more clearly when you were growing up?
BURNSIDE: when you say, see my life more clearly, do you mean like, in terms of queerness?
ANTHONY: Anything, really. So many movies have brought out feelings in me that have made me stare in excitement, like wow that’s my life.
BURNSIDE: There's been so many things that have done that for me. So many to the point where sometimes maybe it's hard to even put into words. Into The Wild which goes into this whole theme of the outdoors. This character, the protagonist, he's sort of like a trust fund kid and he graduates college and his parents have his whole life set up for him. But he sort of just disappears and leaves everything behind and goes out to live in the wild and survive in the Tundra on his own. It’s about this journey of self-discovery in the wilderness without anyone else. I saw that movie shortly after moving to New York, after all this happened with the church. I related to it. I related to this idea of going out into the wild, the wild being this vast unknown city and figuring it out on my own. Finding my way and leaving behind everything that has been planned for me by my family. Everything that's been expected of me so that I could do it my way. That movie was huge for me when I saw it.
ANTHONY: I feel like I've been going full 20/20 on you, so I'll go a little lighter on the questions now. You’re one the newest members on the American Horror Stories repertoire. Horror is my favorite genre. What’s your favorite scary movie?
BURNSIDE: I actually don't like scary movies [Laughs].
ANTHONY: Really?
BURNSIDE: I don’t! It’s actually really scary for me. I don’t like to be scared for fun, if that makes sense. So I guess, yeah, that would mean I’m a scaredy cat. [laughs]
ANTHONY: So you’re not going to Hollywood horror nights or any of that fun stuff?
BURNSIDE: Oh, no.. That gives me anxiety. It freaks me out. I'm also a little bit squeamish. The last time I went to something like that, like a horror house or whatever, I just wanted to fight everybody. It just makes me anxious.
ANTHONY: Was your part in American Horror Stories a challenge because of that?
BURNSIDE: No—actually. I find actually working on it is not challenging in that way at all, because we know what’s happening. We're creating this, this net, this story. I know we're telling a story and I'm able to find the truth in the story and lean into that. Also, in certain scenarios where maybe if the character has to be afraid, Dyllón actually may be a little bit afraid of this kind of stuff! [laughs] So it actually works quite well, since I’d actually be really freaked out anyway.
ANTHONY: I love this idea of like alternating horror stories every week. And it really gets you thinking, at least for me—what a personal horror story would be. Is that something you’ve given thought to? What’s your own personal horror story?
BURNSIDE: It could be so many things. I'm a bit claustrophobic. And as I'm about to step into an elevator, I just think about being locked in an elevator. That sounds really terrifying to me, but how do you take that up a notch? Being locked in an elevator with someone who has COVID.
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ANTHONY: And they're coughing, maybe you forgot your mask upstairs, something like that..
BURNSIDE: Yes! And maybe they don’t have the vaccine. Or they say they do, but they’re coughing and look like they’re dying. Then maybe the elevator falls too?
ANTHONY: That’s hilarious.
BURNSIDE: And the elevator’s going down 60 floors. That’s a horror story for me.
ANTHONY: What can we expect more from you musically? I feel like you're really just like starting to scratch the surface with that part of you publicly.
BURNSIDE: Musically I just want to keep pushing the envelope. I just want to keep expanding myself as an artist and what I can do as a recording artist and also as a songwriter and producer.I want to continue to expand the narrative of what it means to be a black man. I'm trying to do something that people won't expect. In recent history of our understanding of what artists are allowed to do, musically, it's been very specific, particularly with black artists. We are sort of expected to live in a certain space particularly, like dance music for example. Which is fine, my music gets put on playlists in a way that lumps it in with all the other artists, which I love. I think that something that I'm really pushing against is this idea that the music has to sound a certain way just because I’m this or that. I definitely think people can expect for me to go a lot deeper in my music around my experiences and relationships. I like to talk about mental health and the things that I'm facing daily. I like to unpack my own ideas about religion and the world around me. You know, I think not unlike any other artists making music in the last 40 years, I'm writing and singing about the things that are important to me. The things that are important to my friends and family, I'm writing about the things that I see, the things that I want to see.
ANTHONY: Last question. It's simple, but it's telling. What's the first thing you think about on most mornings?
BURNSIDE: Oh my God. The first thing I think about most mornings
ANTHONY: These days..
BURNSIDE: These days is—how long do I have before my first appointment. How long do I have before my first call and how much time do I have to spend some time with myself before I have to give it to someone else? I have my morning rituals that I like to do, that help ground me. I have found it more and more difficult to be consistent with that lately. So, I'm usually thinking about—okay, how much time do I have before my first call so that I can take some time to really express my craft, take some time with myself, do my gratitude journaling, have some time to meditate and listen to Abraham Hicks.
Photographed by JJ Geiger Styling by Jensen Leigh Written by Dio Anthony Grooming by Annette Chaisson Barber/Stylist Robert C. Matthews III